Can you clarify which section of Nicole's do you mean? I'm a little confused as to what you are referring to.

As far as I know, no structures have been removed from Nicole's in the last few months except for a ladder section that fell apart due to wear. It was a raised, left-turning ladder placed on the right side of the trail. If this is indeed what you are referring to, it has been repaired fairly recently.

Yeah, but, Nicoles is a multi use trail and isn't meant to be made any more difficult for the hikers with which we share it.
They were there hiking it long before we started bombing down it on mountain bikes.

Tungsten, we would all appreciate that you stopped being such a sissy as it is not good for the scene. I have been riding these trails for over 5 years on burnaby and have probably seen less than 20 people hiking nicoles, most of the people that i have seen probably did not know that it was a Mountain Biking trail. Like Huvis, i feel that Nicholes is becoming another easy trail for cross country riders. i thought that the point of BMBA was to create a mountain biking environment for everyone, not just people who are mountain biking to stay in shape :roll: :roll:

what is the point of having a trail for hikers and bikers it just causes huge problems i don't know why they don't just have designated trails for a certain use makes great sence to me. If the hikers want to use the bikers trails thats fine btu as long as they know it is a biking trail.

This mountain has had trails on it far longer than people have been mountain biking. remember that before you take too much of a sense of entitlement over the current use. Just my opinion, but insulting other users is a waste of energy. Fighting amongst ourselves seriously undermines the efforts of the BMBA, and directing insults at members might discourage them from continuing to volunteer their time and efforts for the common cause. If you don't have anything nice to say, at least don't be an @$$hole about it.

Multi-use trails are the only way to satisfy bikers, hikers and other trail users. IF they made Joes a hike only trail it adversely affect people that commute up and down SFU as well as riders that use this trail to access the upper trails. There are a limited number of trails now so cut them in half for or a third for the various user groups and there would be a huge outcry from everyone involved. It is a balancing act and we need to recognize that all users are enjoying the mountain and show respect for their rights.

As for dumbing down Nicoles, let us not forget that:

1. Peoples' riding ability has probably improved since they first started riding
2. The equipment (bikes, armor, etc) has also radically improved
3. As with any trail, the more people ride it the better they get to know it
and as a result it makes it seem easier.

This is not to say that it hasn't been dumbed down somewhat and I along with most people would like to see some improvements. We need work with the city to make these improvement - and we are. We need to show that we are responsible and responsive to all user groups. Liability issues, the wide range of abilities and users need to be addressed and taken into account. On lower snake some time ago there was a small ladder built and stairs were built on the side for hikers. It was a quick and easy solution for both groups. We need to plan trails now and provide both a and b lines.

Finally, this is not the North Shore. It will never have the extensive trail network and level of challenging runs that is there. Burnaby Mountain is and will be at best a good intermediate mountain that will provide enough of a challenge to continue to make it fun for a wide variety of bikers and hikers.

Ron

I ride once a week (at least when I can) with one of the original builders of Nichole's trail. It was originally built by a Mountain biker (named after the daughter of one of the builders) and during it's early days it was a lot easier than it is today, even on rigid bikes. Why? There was more soil on the trail and it didn't have the traffic it does today. Over time there has been significant erosion caused by cyclists that has in turn made sections more sketchy. This fostered construction to mitigate the problems. Some of this work was good, and other stuff...not so much.

A trail is a living thing and will change as the years go by. People that haven't ridden Nichole's in years have come back to the trail amazed at the changes, it is in a constant state of metamorphasis. Over the years things have been added that are frankly...quite crappy. That ladder section was really poorly built so I'm not sad to see it go. That being said, I agree this repair work has dumbed that section down a bit. Not necessarily happy about it, but with the process underway (BMBA developing a relationship-protocol with Burnaby Parks) the ability to have a say in these sorts of situations can only get better.

post answered in another thread.